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	<title>Comments on: Blame the user, not the tool</title>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://ryan.freebern.org/2005/06/16/blame-the-user-not-the-tool/comment-page-1#comment-344</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-344</guid>
		<description>&quot;The Jim Crow laws themselves were passed by constitutional, democratically-elected legislatures. Jim Crow laws were a democratic expression of the will of the majority of southern states. If the anti-democratic filibuster was relevant, then so was representative democracy itself.&quot;

I made a couple of slight mis-types here. I should&#039;ve written...

Jim Crow laws themselves were passed by constitutional, democratically-elected state legislatures. Jim Crow laws were a democratic expression of the will of the majority in southern states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Jim Crow laws themselves were passed by constitutional, democratically-elected legislatures. Jim Crow laws were a democratic expression of the will of the majority of southern states. If the anti-democratic filibuster was relevant, then so was representative democracy itself.&#8221;</p>
<p>I made a couple of slight mis-types here. I should&#8217;ve written&#8230;</p>
<p>Jim Crow laws themselves were passed by constitutional, democratically-elected state legislatures. Jim Crow laws were a democratic expression of the will of the majority in southern states.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://ryan.freebern.org/2005/06/16/blame-the-user-not-the-tool/comment-page-1#comment-343</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-343</guid>
		<description>As for Matthew Murray&#039;s point, yes the anti-democratic US Senate filibuster was used to block civil rights legislation. It was relevant. But take it one step further. The Jim Crow laws themselves were passed by constitutional, democratically-elected legislatures. Jim Crow laws were a democratic expression of the will of the majority of southern states. If the anti-democratic filibuster was relevant, then so was representative democracy itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for Matthew Murray&#8217;s point, yes the anti-democratic US Senate filibuster was used to block civil rights legislation. It was relevant. But take it one step further. The Jim Crow laws themselves were passed by constitutional, democratically-elected legislatures. Jim Crow laws were a democratic expression of the will of the majority of southern states. If the anti-democratic filibuster was relevant, then so was representative democracy itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://ryan.freebern.org/2005/06/16/blame-the-user-not-the-tool/comment-page-1#comment-342</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-342</guid>
		<description>The filibuster IS anti-democratic. It&#039;s supposed to be. The United States is supposed to be a constitutionally limited democracy, not a direct, unlimited one. Majority rules, but within limits. If the majority thinks, &#039;Brian should be denied free speech rights because he&#039;s anti-Bush,&#039; that doesn&#039;t mean they can do it. Sure, their not being able to do it is technically anti-democratic, but I&#039;m glad of that. Sometimes you need anti-democratic things to protect minority rights. As far as I&#039;m concerned, the Republicans can get rid of the filibuster if they want, but I&#039;m sure it won&#039;t be long before they regret it. They won&#039;t be in the majority forever. And payback&#039;s a b--ch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The filibuster IS anti-democratic. It&#8217;s supposed to be. The United States is supposed to be a constitutionally limited democracy, not a direct, unlimited one. Majority rules, but within limits. If the majority thinks, &#8216;Brian should be denied free speech rights because he&#8217;s anti-Bush,&#8217; that doesn&#8217;t mean they can do it. Sure, their not being able to do it is technically anti-democratic, but I&#8217;m glad of that. Sometimes you need anti-democratic things to protect minority rights. As far as I&#8217;m concerned, the Republicans can get rid of the filibuster if they want, but I&#8217;m sure it won&#8217;t be long before they regret it. They won&#8217;t be in the majority forever. And payback&#8217;s a b&#8211;ch.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Freebern</title>
		<link>http://ryan.freebern.org/2005/06/16/blame-the-user-not-the-tool/comment-page-1#comment-341</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Freebern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-341</guid>
		<description>How do you get &quot;the majority should have no rights&quot; from &quot;the minority should not be denied this one right&quot;? Do you really think the existence of the filibuster completely removes any and all power that the majority has?

In large part, I believe the procedures in place currently are good the way they stand, including the filibuster and the supermajority rule. We&#039;ve been fiddling around with this government for hundreds of years, tweaking it here and there, and it&#039;s evolved to the point it has because that&#039;s how it seems to work for us at this point. I support the right of Bill Frist to want to get rid of the filibuster, I just don&#039;t agree that it should be done. Perhaps in the future a majority will agree, and then it&#039;ll continue to evolve.

I only consider it &quot;trampling&quot; if the minority has no way to check the majority&#039;s power. If they hav e no tools like the filibuster to help them ensure they get a say in matters, then the majority won&#039;t have any reason to give them any respect. It&#039;s human nature to seize power where it&#039;s available, and that&#039;s what would happen if tools like the filibuster were removed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you get &#8220;the majority should have no rights&#8221; from &#8220;the minority should not be denied this one right&#8221;? Do you really think the existence of the filibuster completely removes any and all power that the majority has?</p>
<p>In large part, I believe the procedures in place currently are good the way they stand, including the filibuster and the supermajority rule. We&#8217;ve been fiddling around with this government for hundreds of years, tweaking it here and there, and it&#8217;s evolved to the point it has because that&#8217;s how it seems to work for us at this point. I support the right of Bill Frist to want to get rid of the filibuster, I just don&#8217;t agree that it should be done. Perhaps in the future a majority will agree, and then it&#8217;ll continue to evolve.</p>
<p>I only consider it &#8220;trampling&#8221; if the minority has no way to check the majority&#8217;s power. If they hav e no tools like the filibuster to help them ensure they get a say in matters, then the majority won&#8217;t have any reason to give them any respect. It&#8217;s human nature to seize power where it&#8217;s available, and that&#8217;s what would happen if tools like the filibuster were removed.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Murray</title>
		<link>http://ryan.freebern.org/2005/06/16/blame-the-user-not-the-tool/comment-page-1#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-340</guid>
		<description>So, what rights do you feel the majority party in the Senate deserves?  Because it sounds like you&#039;re saying &quot;none.&quot;  Do you also disagree, then, with the supermajority rule?  Because there are still a minority of people being trampled on.  If 99 senators agree on something and one senator disagrees, is that Senator having his rights trampled on?  At what point--for YOU--does it stop being &quot;trampling&quot; for you and start being okay?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, what rights do you feel the majority party in the Senate deserves?  Because it sounds like you&#8217;re saying &#8220;none.&#8221;  Do you also disagree, then, with the supermajority rule?  Because there are still a minority of people being trampled on.  If 99 senators agree on something and one senator disagrees, is that Senator having his rights trampled on?  At what point&#8211;for YOU&#8211;does it stop being &#8220;trampling&#8221; for you and start being okay?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Freebern</title>
		<link>http://ryan.freebern.org/2005/06/16/blame-the-user-not-the-tool/comment-page-1#comment-339</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Freebern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-339</guid>
		<description>No, Martinez &lt;em&gt;doesn&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; necessarily think, as you say, the filibuster subverts representative government. He says outright that it subverts &lt;em&gt;democracy&lt;/em&gt;, and I totally agree with him. A pure democracy &lt;em&gt;must&lt;/em&gt; have tools to subvert it in place or else, like I said, the majority always runs rampant over the minority. A representative republic, like the one we have in place, could also be said to &quot;subvert democracy&quot; because it can give minorities stronger voices in government than they would have in a pure democracy. I don&#039;t call this subversion, I call it sensible. And I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a huge leap to suggest that if he wants to get rid of one form of &quot;democratic subversion,&quot; he&#039;d gladly get rid of another.

I don&#039;t have a problem with media pointing out that the anti-lynching laws were filibustered. I agree that they should. I have a problem with Martinez&#039;s argument that the filibuster should be eliminated because it can be used in this way. He fails, like so many other anti-filibuster people fail, to see the bigger picture in all this, which is one reason why I&#039;m taking him to task.

The other reason is that he says the resolution to apologize should have mentioned the filibuster. As I said in the post, this is stupid. An &quot;apology&quot; that attempts to give an excuse like &quot;it was the filibuster&#039;s fault!&quot; is not only not an apology, it&#039;s a coward&#039;s way out. If the resolution had included language attempting to explain away the Senate&#039;s fault in not passing the anti-lynching laws, it would have been both embarassing and disgusting, and I&#039;m disgusted with Martinez for suggesting that&#039;s how we should have done it.

I&#039;ll grant you that if you define evil in the more narrow sense you do, perhaps Martinez doesn&#039;t think that the filibuster is evil. But that&#039;s your opinion, and unless Martinez himself joins this discussion, we won&#039;t know for sure. However, this is semantics, and missing the point. Pretend I said &quot;actively harmful&quot; in its place.

Lastly, I purposefully didn&#039;t equate the &quot;mob&quot; with Republicans, as you suggest I did. I hold the same opinion no matter who is the majority and who is the minority. I want the filibuster in place, and just as powerful, because if it&#039;s not there, the Senate majority, whoever it is, will always be able to do as it pleases, and the minority &lt;em&gt;will&lt;/em&gt; get trampled, and that&#039;s not something I ever want to see happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Martinez <em>doesn&#8217;t</em> necessarily think, as you say, the filibuster subverts representative government. He says outright that it subverts <em>democracy</em>, and I totally agree with him. A pure democracy <em>must</em> have tools to subvert it in place or else, like I said, the majority always runs rampant over the minority. A representative republic, like the one we have in place, could also be said to &#8220;subvert democracy&#8221; because it can give minorities stronger voices in government than they would have in a pure democracy. I don&#8217;t call this subversion, I call it sensible. And I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a huge leap to suggest that if he wants to get rid of one form of &#8220;democratic subversion,&#8221; he&#8217;d gladly get rid of another.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a problem with media pointing out that the anti-lynching laws were filibustered. I agree that they should. I have a problem with Martinez&#8217;s argument that the filibuster should be eliminated because it can be used in this way. He fails, like so many other anti-filibuster people fail, to see the bigger picture in all this, which is one reason why I&#8217;m taking him to task.</p>
<p>The other reason is that he says the resolution to apologize should have mentioned the filibuster. As I said in the post, this is stupid. An &#8220;apology&#8221; that attempts to give an excuse like &#8220;it was the filibuster&#8217;s fault!&#8221; is not only not an apology, it&#8217;s a coward&#8217;s way out. If the resolution had included language attempting to explain away the Senate&#8217;s fault in not passing the anti-lynching laws, it would have been both embarassing and disgusting, and I&#8217;m disgusted with Martinez for suggesting that&#8217;s how we should have done it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll grant you that if you define evil in the more narrow sense you do, perhaps Martinez doesn&#8217;t think that the filibuster is evil. But that&#8217;s your opinion, and unless Martinez himself joins this discussion, we won&#8217;t know for sure. However, this is semantics, and missing the point. Pretend I said &#8220;actively harmful&#8221; in its place.</p>
<p>Lastly, I purposefully didn&#8217;t equate the &#8220;mob&#8221; with Republicans, as you suggest I did. I hold the same opinion no matter who is the majority and who is the minority. I want the filibuster in place, and just as powerful, because if it&#8217;s not there, the Senate majority, whoever it is, will always be able to do as it pleases, and the minority <em>will</em> get trampled, and that&#8217;s not something I ever want to see happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Murray</title>
		<link>http://ryan.freebern.org/2005/06/16/blame-the-user-not-the-tool/comment-page-1#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-338</guid>
		<description>Uh, it actually is a stretch if you believe that the word &quot;evil&quot; has a very specific meaning that none of the words you cite really apply to.  A similar case could be made that, since you consider the Republican majority to be a &quot;mob&quot; &quot;running rampant over the unpopular guy,&quot; that you consider them to be evil.  Is THAT fair to say?  Of course not.  Because we both know that isn&#039;t really what you meant.  But it could be inferred just as easily.

The problem is, evil isn&#039;t something you should have to infer.  You have to do a pretty frenetic dance there to get to &quot;evil&quot; from &quot;anti-democratic.&quot;  I&#039;ll tell you what I consider evil:  Adolf Hitler.  Osama bin Laden.  Saddam Hussein.  Josef Stalin.  The September 11 hijackers.  I take evil very seriously, and while I seriously question the actions of a lot of people on the left, both in the government and in the media, I&#039;d hate to be thought of as calling them &quot;evil&quot; merely for that reason.  Because I don&#039;t think that.  At all.  And I would question the wisdom of anyone who did call them evil just because--horror of horrors--they disagreed with them.  In my universe, evil takes a heck of a lot more than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, it actually is a stretch if you believe that the word &#8220;evil&#8221; has a very specific meaning that none of the words you cite really apply to.  A similar case could be made that, since you consider the Republican majority to be a &#8220;mob&#8221; &#8220;running rampant over the unpopular guy,&#8221; that you consider them to be evil.  Is THAT fair to say?  Of course not.  Because we both know that isn&#8217;t really what you meant.  But it could be inferred just as easily.</p>
<p>The problem is, evil isn&#8217;t something you should have to infer.  You have to do a pretty frenetic dance there to get to &#8220;evil&#8221; from &#8220;anti-democratic.&#8221;  I&#8217;ll tell you what I consider evil:  Adolf Hitler.  Osama bin Laden.  Saddam Hussein.  Josef Stalin.  The September 11 hijackers.  I take evil very seriously, and while I seriously question the actions of a lot of people on the left, both in the government and in the media, I&#8217;d hate to be thought of as calling them &#8220;evil&#8221; merely for that reason.  Because I don&#8217;t think that.  At all.  And I would question the wisdom of anyone who did call them evil just because&#8211;horror of horrors&#8211;they disagreed with them.  In my universe, evil takes a heck of a lot more than that.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Murray</title>
		<link>http://ryan.freebern.org/2005/06/16/blame-the-user-not-the-tool/comment-page-1#comment-337</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-337</guid>
		<description>Also, you know, I wasn&#039;t going to respond to the rest of this, but I have to take issue with something you said, which on its own pretty much catapults this post into &quot;rant&quot; territory for me:

&quot;If Martinez wants a complete and utter democracy, then why do we even have our representative republic in place?&quot;

It is an enormous--and, I feel, unfair--leap in logic to suggest that because Martinez is against the filibuster, he&#039;s against representative government in the democratic process.  I have a feeling that you would never accept that as an argument (a very loose term) if it were made against you, because the second thing simply can&#039;t be inferred from the first thing.  As I see it, Martinez is obviously in favor of representative government, because he thinks the filibuster subverts it, and allows the minority power that they didn&#039;t earn by virtue of the representative process.  This allows good things to happen, yes, but it also allows terrible things to happen, like the filibustering of anti-lynching laws by Senate Democrats or the filibustering of major judicial appointees for spurious reasons by, once again, Senate Democrats.

Regardless of where you stand on the issue, though, it&#039;s disingenuous of the Los Angeles Times or anyone else to not acknowledge the role of the filibuster in the non-passing of the anti-lynching legislation.  It&#039;s absolutely, positively relevant, and news organizations unwilling to highlight that fact deserve to be taken to task for it, and I&#039;m glad Martinez did just that in his story.  I expect it to change absolutely nothing, but your response to that story tells me a lot more about you and your own prejudices than it does anything that Martinez said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, you know, I wasn&#8217;t going to respond to the rest of this, but I have to take issue with something you said, which on its own pretty much catapults this post into &#8220;rant&#8221; territory for me:</p>
<p>&#8220;If Martinez wants a complete and utter democracy, then why do we even have our representative republic in place?&#8221;</p>
<p>It is an enormous&#8211;and, I feel, unfair&#8211;leap in logic to suggest that because Martinez is against the filibuster, he&#8217;s against representative government in the democratic process.  I have a feeling that you would never accept that as an argument (a very loose term) if it were made against you, because the second thing simply can&#8217;t be inferred from the first thing.  As I see it, Martinez is obviously in favor of representative government, because he thinks the filibuster subverts it, and allows the minority power that they didn&#8217;t earn by virtue of the representative process.  This allows good things to happen, yes, but it also allows terrible things to happen, like the filibustering of anti-lynching laws by Senate Democrats or the filibustering of major judicial appointees for spurious reasons by, once again, Senate Democrats.</p>
<p>Regardless of where you stand on the issue, though, it&#8217;s disingenuous of the Los Angeles Times or anyone else to not acknowledge the role of the filibuster in the non-passing of the anti-lynching legislation.  It&#8217;s absolutely, positively relevant, and news organizations unwilling to highlight that fact deserve to be taken to task for it, and I&#8217;m glad Martinez did just that in his story.  I expect it to change absolutely nothing, but your response to that story tells me a lot more about you and your own prejudices than it does anything that Martinez said.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Freebern</title>
		<link>http://ryan.freebern.org/2005/06/16/blame-the-user-not-the-tool/comment-page-1#comment-336</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Freebern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-336</guid>
		<description>He says it&#039;s &quot;anti-democratic&quot;, a &quot;reactionary weapon&quot; that allows people to &quot;kidnap&quot; the Senate, and that they should &quot;nuke the filibuster for all purposes.&quot; It&#039;s not much of a stretch of inference to conclude he thinks it&#039;s evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He says it&#8217;s &#8220;anti-democratic&#8221;, a &#8220;reactionary weapon&#8221; that allows people to &#8220;kidnap&#8221; the Senate, and that they should &#8220;nuke the filibuster for all purposes.&#8221; It&#8217;s not much of a stretch of inference to conclude he thinks it&#8217;s evil.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Murray</title>
		<link>http://ryan.freebern.org/2005/06/16/blame-the-user-not-the-tool/comment-page-1#comment-335</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-335</guid>
		<description>I would just like to point out that he only uses the word &quot;evil&quot; once, and it&#039;s NOT in reference to the filibuster itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would just like to point out that he only uses the word &#8220;evil&#8221; once, and it&#8217;s NOT in reference to the filibuster itself.</p>
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